Knickerbokers & Righteous Brothers interview with Jimmy Walker

So, if you don’t mind, let’s go back right at the beginning…

You are originally from the East Coast, is it true that you were born in the Bronx?

This is true! I’m from New York.

How was it like when you grew up?

When I lived in the Bronx, well… growing up there was kind of interesting. It is New York and it is one of the most interesting places on the planet. There’s so much to do and see and I was an avid sports fan so I could go to see The NY Yankees play. I played a lot of sports myself. There were a lot of outlets for that and also for music. I used to go downtown to Manhattan with friends and we go to Birdland and other Jazz places and, you know, watch the really great musicians play. I think that people who come from NY, if they take advantage of it, are around some of the greatest situations in the world, best musicians and artists. Because people from other places, other states, other countries go to NY to act and play, to study music and study writing. So you have the advantage of people coming to your city, bringing their talent with them and you don’t have to travel very much. It’s a melting-pot. So, I think that was really cool. I mean, you’ve got great stuff like museums, the Natural History, the NY Public Library on 2nd Avenue.You’ve got the zoo, the best zoo in the world is in the Bronx… the Bronx Zoo. You’ve got all kind of places that you can go and take advantage of for educational purposes and just to broaden your views of the world.

I feel that was the greatest part about growing up in NY… It had its disadvantages. In my neighbourhood it started to get…. It started to get tough! There were a lot of gangs started to come up in the late 50’s.That’s when it was starting to get downright dangerous. That was the disadvantage of being a teenager in a dangerous neighbourhood, you really had to watch yourself. But you know, it makes you street smart!

Do you come from a musical background or are you the only artist in the family?

The only person in the family who had any musical ability was my dad, he could sing really well. And he could play the drums, same as me.

Well, actually my next question was about your discovery of the drums, where it came from… What attracted you to that particular instrument. So it came from your dad?

Yeah! I think if you have a talent, at least me at a very early age, (I was maybe 7 or 8 years old), you just naturally gravitate towards it. I watched drummers on television. My uncle was a musicologist and a copyist for the army band at WestPoint. He bought me my first snare drum and sticks and brushes when I was 9. He was also a kind of saxophone player and even in our first little jam session in my house, my uncle pulled out his saxophone and we started playing old swing stuff. He noticed and said that I had an unusual gift for it. So even at an early age, it was just totally natural for me to be able to play the drums. I couldn’t understand why everybody couldn’t do it!

So, before you joined The Knickerbockers, you were in a New York band called The Castle Kings. What sort of music did you play?

Yeah! Well you know, the street doo-wap, rock’n’roll, Elvis, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Isley Brothers, Little Richard- the early rock’n’roll stuff.

One late afternoon, we were standing outside in front of Atlantic Records. We just had a meeting with Dot Records, they were in the same building as Atlantic. So we’re standing outside, harmonizing, waiting for one of the guys’ dad to pick us up- this is a true story- harmonizing to some goofy song that one of the guys in the band wrote and Ahmet Ertegun, the president of Atlantic Records heard us and told us to meet him the next day. So we did! He actually signed us to a contract and we recorded 3 or 4 records. I was recording with some of the legends of the business. People like Phil Alley, Phil Spector, Ahmet Ertegun and his brother Nesuhi. These guys were legends and we were in the studio with them and I didn’t know who they were! So I mean, at a very early age, we were doing things with the heavyweights of the business and we didn’t even know it.

Apart from being an amazing drummer, you also sing… They wrote somewhere that you are part of a somehow limited club of singing drummers. Is it true you that you joined The Knickerbockers because of that extra talent and why were they looking for a drummer who could sing?

They were looking for a drummer and the first time I saw The Knickerbockers was in a neighbourhood venue. It was a supermarket that had been emptied, sold-out and it was reopened to do a little party on Memorial Day. I was walking down the street and I heard this music so I went back and they were set up playing as a trio. Buddy, the saxophone player was playing the drums, really well, and I thought, boy this is a band I’d love to play with! A couple of weeks or months later, they called me up because they’d heard I was a drummer and that I was looking for work. So I went and set up in John and Beau’s house and we played, but my drumming skills were a little bit on the amateur side because I was still young. Then they asked me to sing, I sang some rock’n’roll stuff and John and Beau’s mum heard me sing and she said “Hire that guy, he does sound good”! So my skills with drumming didn’t get me the work, it was the singing. Then I improved as a drummer because you get to play a lot. Also, Buddy taught me a lot of stuff on the drums that he got from other good drummers. But it was actually my voice that got me the job.

Actually my next question was about your first experience of the studio with The Knickerbockers. But it wasn’t in fact your first because you just said you recorded with your previous band. According to Beau, it was pretty intimidating to experience the studio for the first time. How did you feel about that?

Actually, I was really thrilled. I thought recording was really exciting, that was the next step to being a real musician. The next step after that was, I don’t know, money and fame and the journey through the studio was the way to get there. I thought it was a great opportunity and I love listening to stuff that you played and then you listen to it back. I love doing that, I still love it, it’s just no different. Absolutely no different, I still love to record! Music as an art form is like a painter, who paints a picture and can step back and look at it. But if you’re playing live in a nightclub, you can’t step back and listen to what you did. So I always thought that the neatest part of the music process was somebody recording what you did. I love to be recorded live too… I feel that it’s a real way to learn from your mistakes and learn from what you did well.

At the time, you met the producer Jerry Fuller…

We met Jerry Fuller on the East Coast, up in Albany NY. We were playing in a place called, believe it or not, The University Twist Palace! He came through as an artist trying to…he was in Buffalo NY, which is in the Western side of the state. So he did a little tour, trying to sell himself as an artist and he was working his way down to Manhattan. He was going to open an East Coast publishing company for 4 Stars Music. So on the way there, he was playing with all these bands, singing and he was already a writer of 4 hit records himself. He did “Travelling Man”… When he ran into us, he really liked us a lot. I remember at one point, we were doing some rock’n’roll stuff and then he said “You guys wouldn’t happen to know “Misty”, the old Johnny Matis tune?”. And we just laughed, Buddy started playing the intro and boom we were into it! He was just flabbergasted that a rock’n’roll band could play “Misty” with such sophistication. Beau, the guitarist is a master of chord progression. He was really well schooled in that kind of genre. So Jerry was really impressed with the ability as a band to play a song like “Misty” with such flair. That blew him away. So he called the West Coast people at Challenge Records and he told them about us. We did some demo stuff in New York studios. Challenge Records was not really that big of a record company but, you know, we did that to, I don’t know, to show off our abilities to the record company.

So you did find yourself playing the Red Velvet Club in Hollywood quite regularly…

Jerry wanted us to move to the West Coast so he got hold of the owner of the Red Velvet and he booked us there. It was a kind of a neat venue because a lot of people from television and the music industry would go there to hang out. It was like a local watering hole for the celebrities! So we got the gig there and… you know, the rest is history. We got a hit record a month later!

Is it there that you first met Bill Medley and especially Bobby Hatfield of The Righteous Brothers with whom you collaborated a few years later?

Yeah, they used to come in and listen to us and we got them to sit in with us a bunch of times. We got friendly with them and… You see, the thing is the show “Shindig” was being shot at ABC Studios which was close to home for them. So they would do their “Shindig” show and drive up Sunset Boulevard out West to where they lived in Beverly Hills. They would drive by the Red Velvet and drop in. Everybody heard about this group (The Knickerbockers) in the business and how good we were so we just drew a lot of curiosity seekers to see what we were all about.

So after the release of “Lies”, the band wanted “Just One Girl” as the second single but your record company Challenge wanted “One Track Mind”. In retrospect, do you still think that was a mistake? I find both songs very exciting and bursting with energy…

I think “Just One Girl” was a more exciting record but it’s all conjecture to what would have been a hit. You never know, but the song was written by one of the members of the band and “One Track Mind” was written by Keith Colley and his wife Linda. The record was good and we liked it. It was a good song and I thought we did a good job on the record, but like I said, in this business you never know what’s gonna hit and what isn’t. With the original copy of “Lies”, the record company had assigned it to be the B side. If it wasn’t for B. Mitchell Reed, one of the big DJs in Los Angeles at the time, who used to come in and see us at the Red Velvet… he asked our promotional guy when he brought the record up to him and said “Where did you guys record that ‘Lies’ song that they play in the club?”. He replied, “Yeah, that’s the B side” and B. Mitchell Reed, without even hesitating went, “No, it ain’t now!” and put it on the air. He didn’t even listen to it, he just put it on the air, put the needle down and said “Here’s the brand new record by The Knickerbockers!”

You also mentioned the lack of time in the studio when you were recording, which must have been very frustrating. Nevertheless, the band sounded very tight and that rhythm section between you and John was really happening!

Well, we’ve been together for a while and John and I always had a good groove together. We used to rehearse like crazy before we went in the studio so we knew in front that we won’t get the time to mess around in the studio. I’m kind of a proponent of that. I think that by going in the studio and spending a lot of time on a track, you loose the spontaneity and the electric energy that you can get in the first 5 or 6 takes. After that, it can get kind of stale. You know, on top of that, I’d have liked to have spent more time on overdubbing vocals and other instruments. But for the track itself, I like to have it well rehearsed and just play it. Try to get that energy right away.

But you were still trying things in the studio. For example, on that alternate instrumental track of “Lies” released by Sundazed, we can hear you talking and trying to get a certain drum beat.

Oh yeah! Sure. You can rehearse all you want but when you hear what you rehearsed played back, then you have an objective view point of it. You can stand back and listen to it and discuss good and bad points. Maybe we should try to change this or that. On the first couple of cuts of “Lies”, I was playing too much stuff on the drums and it was pointed out to me by the producer/engineer Bruce Spotnick. Bruce said, “You know, maybe you should cut down on some of those fills”. So I thought about it and the guys in the band agreed so I just kept it simple. You know, stuff like that would happen. I was so used to playing that song live that I was just playing too much stuff. And we were just young and still learning what works and what doesn’t.

The band apparently did all the Dick Clark tours. Do you remember playing with The Yardbirds?

I don’t think we ever played with The Yardbirds that I can remember…

Because they did one of those tours when Jeff Beck was in the band. That’s when he had a nervous breakdown and quitted!

I don’t remember that! I didn’t meet The Yardbirds or Jeff Beck. They’re one of the greatest bands of all time. I love Jeff Beck. I played his material in different bands over the years and I always found his material really interesting.

Oh he’s a genius, he’s very unique…

Yeah, I agree… That’s it! He is unique. He stands totally different from most of the other guitar players. You can’t really tell his roots sometimes. You think, “where did he get that from?”.

So on those tours, did you feel at times like close to a nervous breakdown or did you actually had quite a bit of fun?

A lot of guys had nervous breakdowns on the road. The road is a killer.You know, when I first met the Rolling Stones, they looked totally beaten down! In the interview I read that Beverly Paterson did with Beau, he said they came in and they looked dark and scary. They looked like they were undertakers! He really couldn’t believe the way they looked and acted. They didn’t say hello to anybody, they just looked spent.

Yeah, it’s true that touring is very tiring…

It’s the hardest thing you’ll ever do in your life. Doing one-nighters, travelling and putting out all that energy every night. It’s very hard. I mean, look what happened to Clapton back in the 60’s. He had to go in for rehab for a while because he was using drugs to get him up and down. That’s where drugs came in. The guys would be using the upper drugs to get up and then the downer drugs to go to sleep. First thing you know, you’re addicted.

Jerry Fuller once commentated on the very separate personalities in the band, something that makes the nucleus of a good group. Judging from the pictures, you seem rather outgoing and from your playing, very energetic. How would you describe Beau, John and Buddy back then?

Well, we were all pretty young and we all had the same sort of East Coast sense of humour. Self-depreciating, poking fun at one another a lot but knowing it was fun. I mean, we still make one another laugh. The last time we were together in 1990, we were just cracking up all the time!

It was that reunion, wasn’t it?

Yeah, and we still have that same look about things. Jerry loved being around us because we were constantly just cracking jokes about each other. Similar outlook on life! Yeah, we had a lot of energy. I talk to Beau regularly, he’s still playing. He’s doing a little Jazz solo thing locally.

You co-wrote “Come And Get It” with Beau Charles and “Can You Help Me” with Jerry Fuller. Did you write the music or the lyrics?

The lyrics and the melody. That’s how I write and then I go to someone who plays a cordial instrument and put chords to the melody that I wrote. Then we discuss that until we come up with something that we both like. I always write both the lyrics and the melody. I just walk in, sing the song and then they’ll figure out what I’m trying to say with the chords.You know, songs occur to me in the most mysterious ways. I find myself singing and saying “Hey, that’s a song!”. It’s almost as if I’m not even listening to what my mind is doing until I had stepped back and go “Wait a minute, that’s a song!”.

So you were the last to join The Knicks and the first to leave…

Unless you consider that Buddy kind of disappeared… After we had “Lies” and after we had toured a lot, we were kind of looking for another record company but we were stuck with Challenge. They would not let us go, it was a mess. Buddy got into using substances and one night he didn’t show up to work. We were playing a place out in the Valley called The Rag Doll. We played the first set without him and I called his home. His wife said “Oh yeah, he left about an hour” and we said “Hum… that’s weird!”. He never showed up and I didn’t see Buddy again for years, until after I joined The Righteous Brothers. He just skipped out of town and left everybody. So he was the first one to leave… That was one of the reasons that I wanted to leave because it just wasn’t the same without him. He was a pivotal player in the band, he was a very powerful player and when he left I felt…You know when you get used to 4 guys and you think like one mind, when part of it is gone you kind of have a big gap in the energy and the process of making music. We really missed him. We tried to get other guys. We tried drummers and then we tried a keyboard player, he was a let down. So the band at that time was kind of flandering.

So at the time, did you feel a bit bitter and felt the band could have achieved even more or was it “pas de regrets” (no regrets) and you were looking forward to the future?

Well, a little of both. I think that when Buddy left we were kind of lost. Buddy was one of those kind of guys…On one side of the coin, he was very brilliant and on the other side of the coin, he was a high maintenance kind of guy you had to baby-sit because he had some issues. It’s true of a lot of great players. When he left, we didn’t exactly know what to do. So when Bobby Hatfield hit on me to do the Righteous Brothers’thing, I then thought “Yeah, let’s go there” because the band was not going into any direction. Also, you have to remember Beau had spoken to me in a coffee shop in Seattle while we were on the road, about seriously considering leaving the band. He wanted to just quit playing for a while. So he was not up and full of energy like he was anymore, he wasn’t happy. He wanted to spend more time at home with his family and he planted that seed in my head. So when I was approached by Bobby Hatfield to join The Righteous Brothers, I had nobody at all so it was time to make a change.

You recorded the album “Rebirth” in 1969 on Verve/MGM. How much did you write on it and did you play drums as well?

Yeah, I wrote a song called “Nobody’s Gonna Take Me” and I played drums on every cut. I didn’t really want to because my skills as a drummer had eroded a bit as I had not played much. I wanted a band sound and I wanted the same drummer on the whole album but couldn’t get anybody to be available for the whole project. I also produced the album with guitarist Barry Rillera and the engineer, mixing and arranging, Bobby would get bored and leave.

Where did you perform?

All the major Universities in America and clubs like the Coconut Grove in Hollywood. We played in Japan and the Phillipines and were regulars in Las Vegas. We had sell-out crowds, we were a very popular act at the (legendary) Sands Hotel in Vegas. I was with the Righteous Brothers for over 4 years. I got really good by the time Bobby decided to take a break. I wanted to carry on but Bobby didn’t want to so he broke the act.

You also appeared on many TV shows.

Yeah, we did the Smothers Brothers and Glen Campbell’s Good Time Hour amongst others (note: both can be found on YouTube. They did a great Sam & Dave medley on the Smothers Brothers Show).

Around the same time, you signed a record deal with Columbia Records as a solo artist.

Yeah, Jerry Fuller left Challenge Records and went to work for Columbia. I recorded 3 singles including “I Got The Best Of You”. I had a dual contract with both Columbia and Verve/MGM which is quite unusual. Jerry discovered Gary Puckett (and the Union Gap) and he had the songs that became hits for Gary like “Young Girl” and “Woman Woman”. I was supposed to record them before he did but my previous label Challenge would not let me go. I had to record an album to close the contract. It’s called “How Can I Forget” and has recently resurfaced on iTunes and other digital downloads outlets. One single was released at the time called “Drown In My Broken Dreams / Always Leaving, Always Gone”.

To close the subject on the 60’s, what do you miss the most and the least about that decade?

Well, to me that was one the most interesting eras of music because it was very experimental.

And very creative…

Yeah, a lot of creativity. The artistry was being allowed to happen. The record companies were more or less standing back and just taking what the artists gave them and then marketing it. Whereas later on, what they did was tell the artists what song to do to make it easier for them to sell it. Instead of the marketers saying “Just give me your art and I’ll market it”, they say “We want this so we can make it easier for our marketing department to sell it”. That wasn’t happening in the 60’s. I don’t think that Jimi Hendrix would have made it today. Or The Doors, or a lot of bands like Crosby, Still, Nash & Young. I don’t think they would have passed the front door. Even The Eagles. Because they were different, they were creating something entirely new. Even Otis Redding. I mean, who sounds like Otis Redding? Nobody. They would say, “Well you don’t sound enough like so and so therefore we’re not going to sign you”. But in those days, it was much more open policy and it was a great era of music. The 50’s had some great moments too. Then in the 70’s & 80’s and even the 90’s, the marketing took control because they could see the huge amount of money that was being made. 

We are now in the 70’s… In the mid-Seventies, you were in a band called OASIS, with a real hot Soul/Funk sound like Tower Of Power.

Yeah, we had 5 vocalists, we had a great arranger and had a really good writer in Coleman Head. We had a lot of good ingredients vocally so it worked out. It was one of the best bands I was with. I think The Knickerbockers and Oasis were two of the best bands I’ve ever been with in terms of vocals and cohesiveness together, as far as a unit, as far as playing in a band.

Did you sing in Oasis?

Oh yeah, I was the lead-singer.

Did you record anything?

Yeah. Jerry Fuller recorded and produced an album for us up in San Francisco at Wally Heider studio. It never came to fruition because I think we just didn’t know what we were doing enough. Jerry got us some potential deals but not with any major labels. And the business at that time was changing. There were more smaller independent labels starting to happen. There were a couple of them that wanted to release our stuff but we were trying to get a major record deal. And then the band started breaking up! The bass player Victor Conte hem… of the steroids scandal fame, you know who he is?

He’s Bruce’s cousin, isn’t he?

Yeah, he got embroiled in a big steroids scandal with other athletes.

Yes I heard about that…

Yeah well, he was kind of pushy as far as telling Jerry Fuller what he wanted out of the record companies. Jerry called me and said “ What’s this guy want?” (laugh) “Who does he think he is?” you know… So he kind of broke up the band in terms of… I didn’t want to play with him anymore. I got fed up with him. And so did the trombone player Jim Waller. Jim was the guy who started Oasis, he put it together from the ground up and he got fed up with Victor. He was a tough guy to get along with.

Bruce Conte was not in that band, was he?

No, Bruce and I formed another band called Hot Street.

Yeah, Hot Street…

That was a good band too.

Was it a similar Soul/Funk type of sound?

Yeah, but we had more of a universal appeal. Hot Street was a real good club act because we did some Top 40 material. I did some Blues material like in a Ray Charles big band sort of way and we did all The Stones material. So it was a mixture of Top 40, Blues, original music which we had and we even did some of Coleman’s tunes. It was kind of an interesting little package. The line-up did change a few times.

We had Julian Molina on bass and a guy by the name of Elliot Smith on keyboards. It was me, Bruce, Elliot, Julian and a girl singer, Terry Smith. We also had Louis Pain on keys. Then we had another mixture with Chester Thompson on keys from The Tower of Power who started playing with Santana. He was in the band and we had a bass player by the name of Gary Calvin and that was another good style. But every time we changed players, the band would change a little bit. Which is OK, you know, it went from this to that to the other thing but it was always the same school of songs. It kind of had a Tower of Power, Doobie Brothers, a San Francisco City band kind of sound.

Yeah, you were playing mainly in the Bay Area of San Francisco, weren’t you?

Pretty much, yeah… we played all over the whole Bay Area from the Southern part all the way down to St Louis Obispo, all the way up to San Ramon and everywhere in between. Redwood City, Burlington, we played all the cities throughout the Bay Area for 2 years. That was tough because we played 4 or 5 one-nighters in different clubs every week.

Were you living in Northern California at the time?

Yeah! I had moved from Fresno to the South of the Bay Area.

You’re now back in the Bay Area after spending a few years in Vegas. Tell us a bit more about your time in Sin City.

I put a band together, the Jimmy Walker Band, with some good musicians I knew in town. Pat Marlin on keyboards/saxophone, Carl Gottman on bass, Tim Manion on guitar. Tim moved to California so we got TK Kellman who used to play with Bobby Darin. This was a really good band and we played all over town, including BB King’s. Most of the times I sang upfront, that’s what I really want to do.

You’re not exactly shy (laugh)

No, absolutely not! I’m really good with an audience. I have a lot of experience of being up front and that’s what I love to do. I mean, all through The Knickerbockers, Buddy would play drums and I was the other front man. And of course I did that for over 4 years with Bobby Hatfield as the Righteous Brothers.

How do you keep your voice in shape?

You know, I sing better now than ever before. I don’t drink, smoke, take drugs, anything.

Not even the odd glass of wine sometimes?

No, nothing. I just wanted to see what it would be like to be completely clear and free of any kind of altering substances. So I quit drinking over ten years ago. I used to smoke Marijuana and I just got fed up with it, and just said “Enough of that!”.

That’s great but you don’t miss the glass of wine though? (laugh)

No, actually I don’t miss it at all. And I used to love a glass of wine! But I just decided… once I make up my mind about something, I’m kind of stubborn. I really wanted to feel what it was like to be completely free of any crutches, substances, you know, and just to use my own mind and my own self to see what it was like. And I like it! It’s a neat thing.

So while in Vegas you recorded the album “Playing to Win”.

Yeah, I wrote all the tunes, all the lyrics and the melodies. A friend of mine, Jeff Palmer, did all the keyboard work and it’s all sampled. All the drums are samples. It really sounds like a band but it’s not! He did all the chord changes and most of the arranging and I did all the writing and the singing. It’s all me. I even did the vocal backgrounds.

What does it sound like?

You know, it’s a mixture of stuff. The closest thing to describe it would be a kind of Pop/Rhythm’&’ Blues album. There are different beats, different kind of feels. A little Johnny Guitar Watson, a little Steely Dan, a little this, that and the other. I am a Soul & Blues singer but I don’t like to be labelled.

Where can we find it?

It’s available for downloads on CD Baby, iTunes and all the main digital outlets.

What’s your current project?

In the past few months, I have performed live with 2 really good musicians, Blues guitarist Alvon Johnson and bass player Bill McCubbin.

I’ve wrote some new songs and I plan to record them for a new album. I’m also working on doing a tour in Europe. I never played there and I think my style of music would get over really well. Europe has more of an open mind artistically than in America. They’re far more advanced as far as listening to what you do, rather than saying “No, I like this and I want you to play that”. It’s less plastic and there’s more respect for artists like me.

Please visit Jimmy Walker’s website: http://bronx69.wix.com/jimmywalkerprofile

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/jimmy.walker.5817

Interview made by Katy Levy/2013

© Copyright http://psychedelicbaby.blogspot.com/2013

Lamp of the Universe & Datura interview with Craig Williamson

New Zealand-based multi-instrumentalist/vocalist Craig Williamson has released a lot of solo projects in the last decade. He has also been in a band called Datura, which released two heavy psych albums. We talked with Craig about his latest album Transcendence and we also covered the whole career.

Lamp of the Universe has a brand new album out; the title Transcendence makes you think about many different things, but to say at least two words that come to my mind, are psychedelic & spiritual. Craig, this is your latest album. What can you tell us about recording, writing and producing this album?

Yes, psychedelic and spiritual is what i was going for with this album....maybe some say it’s on all of my albums...”Transcendence” was recorded over about 18 months, just on and off, in between what I've been doing with my band Arc of Ascent. Things had been proceeding pretty slow at times within the band, for one reason or another, and i had a fair bit of time to get things rolling with this album. The recording, as i always do, is done in my little home studio....all the writing is done there too. It takes a long time to record all the instruments yourself, but I've found that once i get on a roll things seem to happen allot faster, and i get a “sense” of where i need to go musically, what the songs need, and this time around i felt like it needed to be a bit more “song” based but still have something within the individual songs that flow together as a whole.

Did you have anything special in your mind while song writing?

No nothing any different really from other albums, thinking back about it now maybe just a “feeling” i was going for, which i hadn’t quite got to on other albums.....i had a couple of songs on the go around the time Arc of Ascent put out “The Higher Key”, and because we didn’t do anything to support that album gig-wise i had allot of time to write new music...so I just went from there.

When did this kind of"hippie" music touched you and what are some of albums, from your teenage years that you like even now.

The first stuff i heard from the original “hippie” era and liked was when i was maybe 9 or 10 years old, Doors, Floyd, Beatles, Hendrix...so this would have been in the early 80’s....the Beatles are still my absolute favourite of all time, maybe closely followed by Black Sabbath. But in the early 90’s i started really getting into the Psych and Prog stuff. So to start with it was bands like Gong, Yes, Hawkwind, Donovan, Grateful Dead etc then once Cranium Music started up more underground obscure bands and labels...so all that private press early 90’s scene was a big influence on me with Lamp of the Universe, so we’re talking stuff on labels like Delerium, Rockadelic, Xotic Mind, Acme, Akarma, See For Miles, PSF etc. There’s many albums i still like from my teenage years, American Beauty – The Grateful Dead, Close to the Edge – Yes, Waiting for the Sun – The Doors....way to many to list.

I think the latest album works as a concept. Am I right?

The songs are set out in a way so it’s kind of like a journey, and when you get to the end you’ve arrived at complete transcendence....well hopefully...but i guess it’s more like you can take it as you want, actively be involved or just observe the journey, your choice, both are fine.

Who is doing cover artwork for your albums?

The artwork on this album was done by an amazing artist form the USA Paul Heussentamm, but everyone that’s been involved in other albums has been awesome too, Andrea Frostman, Franz Landl to name just two of them.

Let's go back to your first band. I believe your first band was called Datura and you released two very fine trippy heavy psych records back in late 90s…

Datura band photo, 1998

(left to right) Jon Burnside, Craig Williamson, Brent Middlemiss

Yea Datura, that wasn’t my first band, but it was the first one that people heard about that weren’t in New Zealand. That was a crazy time back then, 14-15 years ago now, i was starting to get into the heavy psych thing allot so got a band together to, well, nothing was really planned, so probably just play some gigs, write some songs, see how it goes, hopefully do some recording - ended up doing two fairly cool albums, second one under a bit of stress and bullshit which split the band up....so that led me to doing things on my own musically for ten years. But hey, you live and you learn right? I’m really proud of those albums actually, some fucken great music on those recordings.

Datura in the studio recording “Visions for the Celestial”

(left to right) Brent Middlemiss – Guitar, Craig Williamson – Bass/Vocals, Bostjan Gombac – Flute/Clarinet, Jon Burnside – Drums

How did Datura come along? It's quite different from the stuff you are doing these days?

Yea it is a bit different from Lamp of the Universe, not too different to the band I've got together now Arc of Ascent though, there are a few similarity's there.....actually after Datura split up i really really felt like getting away from heavy rock music for awhile, burnt-out you might say, and so went for something else that i was getting into as well, the hippie-psych-folk-whatever thing, man I love that stuff.

Since you are from New Zealand what's the scene there? In the past New Zealand and Australia had quite nice underground scene. How about these days? Anything you would recommend?

Maybe not too many psych bands or artists in New Zealand these days, well, that i can think of.....more the heavy stoner sludge thing that could be relevant here....so at the top of the list would be Beastwars from Wellington, very cool band, Meth Drinker which is real dirty sludgy doom also from Wellington, a few others, can’t think of any names at the moment though.

Both Datura albums were released on Cranium and Astral Projection and last year Krauted Mind released a vinyl edition…Will the band get back together again? You formed another similar project called Arc of Ascent with some of the past Datura members and you released two albums, both of them on your label and vinyl version followed again on Krauted Mind Records and Clostridium Records. Tell us about this two albums…

We’ve been lucky that those Datura records are still floating around, crazy really, but I'm really grateful for that, and that we still have fans all around the world....no we won’t be getting back together, that boat has sailed long long ago, some peoples priorities change as time goes on which is understandable and each member is doing “other” things, I'm the only one who’s still playing music actually. So Arc of Ascent is really an updated version of Datura. The two Arc of Ascent albums “Circle of the Sun” and “The Higher key” have gone really well, some people seem to remember thee ole Datura and that i was in that band, and can hear some things that are similar, so all good. We’re very happy to have Clostridium Records in Germany putting out our albums on vinyl, and Krauted Mind too of course, things will continue be released this way, my label – Astral projection for CD, and Clostridium for the high quality vinyl.

Playing live with Datura, 1999

Maybe we can go through your Lamp of the Universe discography and comment each album.

The Cosmic Union

First solo album i tried to do....completely by myself....recorded on a crappy 8 track recorder. Songs picked from about a million demos i did on an even shitter 4 track recorder, many of which have never come out. Thought it would never sell, so i numbered all the first pressing, which was supposed to be the only press, was completely amazed that Cranium Music – the New Zealand label that put it out had to repress it. now it’s been repressed about 10 times. Realised that i might be able to maybe do another one.

Echo in Light

Recorded on the same crappy 8 track. Started to spread-out a bit more, jam a bit, instrumental at the end and all....crazy....went ok, then the label that put it out, Cranium Music, folded and took what money they owed me with them. Oh well, just carry on...with no plan!

Heru

First album on my new 16 track recorder because the 8 track died. Sat on this album after finishing it for over a year, not being sure what to do with it, being almost completely instrumental – something i had always wanted to do, ah, do an instrumental album that is...decided to start another lot of recordings.....Ended up getting it released on limited CDR at Barlfire Recordings in the UK, sold out in a week, so again amazed, had to repress it, this time on proper CD.

Earth, Spirit & Sky

Still with no plan, recorded this one, felt way better about it and somehow got it released on the legendary September Gurls Records in Germany on LP, and the equally legendary Timothy Renner's label Hand/Eye on CD. My only almost completely acoustic album.

From the Mystic Rays of Astrological Light

Finally got my shit together and started my own label, Astral Projection. Again, an instrumental album like “Heru” but without the eastern thing too much, more space jammin’ drone music. Had a blast recording it, confused allot of people with this one though i think, some aren’t too keen on it – i have been told by some fans it’s my best one!

Arc of Ascent

An experiment of the Kawabata eastern drone variety, no proper drumbeats, no proper vocals, bowed Sitar, violin etc, crazy album. I Released it as a limited edition CDR because i thought this would really confuse people, it did. Sold out in three days....Sonic Mediations in the USA re-released it on cassette, fuck yea, now that’s underground.

Acid Mantra

This one was written and recorded around the same time the first Arc of Ascent line-up was getting together,so around 07/08 so i was maybe a little influenced by the “band” thing, or the “regular song” thing a bit, ie no drone music. Took an age to feel happy about putting it out, but eventually got over myself and put it out. Looking back I'm very happy how it turned out now, after beating myself up about it for awhile thinking it was crap, I'm sure most musicians go through that.

I noticed there was another album under your real name back in 1999?

Yes, it was called “Craig – Lotus of a thousand petals”. Those are recordings from the 4 –track i had, i felt it was a bit too “low-fi” so i re-recorded it, changed a couple of tracks and that became “The Cosmic Union”. I hand made all the covers and booklets for that, man what a hell of a lot of work.

What's currently on your turntable? I'm just guessing you are a vinyl fan? Anything interesting you would like to recommend to our readers?

Yes I'm a vinyl fan. When i started buying music all there was were LPs and cassettes, so I've always mostly bought vinyl to listen to at home, to me it just sounds more “real”. What’s on my turntable today? Rush – Fly by Night. yesterday it was Cosmic jokers. Interesting recommendations? nothing that the readers wouldn’t already know about....

How about books?

For sure. I’m into reading about allot on history topics, Ancient cultures, religions, gnostic scriptures etc....also I'm big on the rock star biography, last one i read was either the Tony Iommi one or it might have been the AC/DC one.

What's your near future plan?

Writing and rehearsing the new Arc of Ascent album right now, third album, right on!

I guess we covered pretty much everything. Any last words?

Just to thank everyone all round the world who listens to what i do, and who buys a Cd, an LP, a T Shirt, it’s so greatly appreciated.

Interview made by Klemen Breznikar/2013

© Copyright http://psychedelicbaby.blogspot.com/2013

Orchestre Poly-Rythmo De Cotonou - The Skeletal Essences of Afro Funk 1969-1980 (2013) review

Orchestre Poly-Rythmo De Cotonou “Volume Three – The Skeletal Essences of Afro Funk 1969-1980” (Analog Africa, 2013)

The third volume of this prolific band’s output captures 14 more of their 500+ recordings from master tapes and vinyl records collected by label chief Samy Ben Redjeb during numerous trips to their homeland in Dahomey/Benin. Incantatory vocal chanting, minimalist, staccato guitar lines, and a bottom-heavy groove courtesy “Africa’s funkiest rhythm section” are the order of the day. Toss in a few scorching brass pronouncements and a bouncy Farfisa backing and you have a dance party to rival James Brown and his Famous Flames.

               Fans of Paul Simon’s “Graceland” period or the funky dance stylings of Remain In Light”-era Talking Heads and David Byrne’s subsequent travels with Brian Eno in the “Bush of Ghosts” will find a lot to celebrate here, but the Poly Rhythmic Orchestre offer the real deal – the local rhythms delivered in the native patois. Compiler Redjeb provides an astonishingly well-informed historical backdrop in his 44-page booklet along with helpful descriptions of the various rhythms employed in each track, from the West African Dahomean Vodoun of opener “Ne Rien Voir, Dire, Entendre” to the rap-friendly “Jerk fon” and “Sato” of tracks like “N’Goua” and “Houton Kan Do Gome” (featuring some astonishing guitar soloing), and the hypnotic, trance-inducing percussives and snappy guitar lines of the “Jerk Sakpata” rhythm of “Pourquoi Pas?” and the organ-driven, happy foot dance party, “Akue We Non Houme.”

               The “Pop Fon” of “A O O Ida” is a dance floor magnet, while the festive Caribbean grooves of “Vi E Lo” demonstrate a “Pachanga” strain in their music that’ll have you packing your bags for sunnier climes! And I challenge anyone to sit still during the Afro Bossa Nova funk of “Ecoutes Ma Melodie.” So if World Music is your bag, or you just want to get up and shake your groove thang, pick up the gloriously catchy rhythms of one of Africa’s most exciting musical exports and start a party!

Review made by Jeff Penczak/2013

© Copyright http://psychedelicbaby.blogspot.com/2013

Shark Move & Giant Step interview with Benny Soebardja

Benny Soebardja is one of the most important figures from the Indonesian music industry.  Being a member of bands such as ‘The Peels’, ‘Shark Move’ and the infamous ‘Giant Step’, Benny left his mark across many memorable albums throughout the years.  During his career he also recorded solo efforts, which many regard to as some of the best music to ever surface from the region. With the help of British poet Bob Dook, Benny recorded numerous English based songs filled with incredible musicianship and melodies that have an underlying progressive nature.

It's our great pleasure to have your here, Benny. How are you?

Yeah, I'm also very glad to know you, Klemen. I'm OK since I got heart attack on November 2nd 2012 and survived. Its like my 2nd life. My best friend, Bob Dook and I are now making lyrics with the title "Second Life". We plan to make a song and record it.

Where were you born and what can you tell us about growing up and learning to play a guitar? What were some of your influences?

I was born in a town called Tasikmalaya on July 4, 1949 (so American citizen will celebrate my birthday every year hehe). I was learning guitar since I was 10 years old without a teacher, just watching somebody else playing guitar and I was very glad when my mom gave me a birthday present (acoustic guitar) made locally that was the best present I got. The most influential guitar players for me are mostly from British bands such as King Crimson, Pink Floyd, the Beatles, Tielman Brothers from Holland, Gentle Giant, and off course Led Zepp and Jimi Hendrix and many more, but I've tried to blend all ideas becoming my own character.

Your first major band, that recorded LP's was Shark Move. Were you in any other bands before that?

In 1968 I formed pop group band called the Peels (still in High School at that moment) we mostly played cover versions such as Beatles songs, Jimi Hendrix, Procol Harum, as well Rolling Stones and had a contract in some night clubs in Singapore, Kualalumpur and Penang, during that time one of the member named Soman Loebis (passed away) is one of the founding member of Shark Move band, other member of the Peels is Boetje Garna (left hand bassist), Deddy Garna (drums) and Gumilang (lead singer).

Shark Move formed in Bandung back in 1971 or was it in 1972? And by the time of late 1972 you already recorded an album titled "Ghede Chokra's". I believe you released it by yourselves as SHARK MOVE Record. How did you come together to form Shark Move and why the name "Shark Move"?

In 1972 I was registered as student of Agriculture Faculty Univ Padjadjaran Bandung West Java, while Soman Loebis also registered as student of Institute Technology Bandung, me and Soman wanted to improve our band quality instead of as a cover version band we prefered to have a recording with our own songs, at that time I had already songs: "My Life", "Butterfly", "Evil War" and Soman got "Bingung", so we (me and Soman) decided to leave the Peels and form SHARK MOVE to me Soman is the best keyboardist player at that moment. Shark Move name was given by Aktuil magazine as well as designing the cover of the album the guy name is Choqie one of creative person in Aktuil magazine.

Shark Move members:

Benny Soebardja- Lead guitar, lead vocal

Soman Loebis-Keyboardist/Vocal

Yanto Diablo-Basist/vocal

Sammy Zakaria (passed away)-drums/vocal

Bhagu Ramchand (sponsor/manager) he also passed away and he sang "Evil War" which he was love that song very much, and we also made English lyric with him.

I made those song "My Life", "Butterfly", "Evil War" and "Insan", "Yanto" made 2 Indonesian songs while Soman made song Bingung and he sang the song as well.

Where did you record the album and what gear did the band use?

We rent a studio in Jakarta called Musica Studio using 12 Tracks channel, my guitar Gibson Les Paul, Fender as well as bass, and Ludwig drums and Hammond organ with Leslie, and we recorded the album in 7 days recording non stop (saving our money) but off course we did a proper preparation in Bandung before we began recording.

What are some of the strongest memories from producing and recording it? Was there any concept to it? What can you tell us about the cover artwork?

Since I was as also student of Faculty of Agriculture and Soman as well a student of ITB, music for us was only a hobby, we wanted to express our creation, witch was sadly dictated by producer (majority of the music genre at that moment is sad song or mellow which really isn't my style) so I refused to be a part of major label and we may claimed that Sharkmove is the pioneer of INDIE label. which nobody doing the same thing yet. Our basic concept was only that we do have a same vision and mission to form the band and propose something different in other word we call it Progressive.

As I told you earlier the art of cover album made by Choqie Samanta an artist from Aktuil magazine, the cover is related to my song Evil War, where the 5 heroes try fight with Evil.

Do you know how many copies were made, since this was a private release. And how did you actually distribute the LP? It must had been a hard work for you to get some exposure.

Sharkmove made only 100 Vinyl and sell at music shop at that moment, and later the pirates very clever copied onto cassettes and selled them well all over Indonesia without our permit, that is one reason me and Bhagu decided to make another recording Benny Soebardja solo album and put some songs from Sharkmove plus new song and made cassette. Later on (2004 ???) one recording company from Germany ask me to make a Re Issue of Sharkmove in Vinyl and CD format but until now  I had no report at all about the selling process. And I believe the original 100 vinyl of Sharkmove its now kept by collectors in Indonesia as well as other countries in Europe < Japan maybe also USA.

How about concerts? Where all did you play and what do you recall from having concerts? What were some other bands of the time you shared bill?

As I told you earlier that music was at that moment just a hobby and we were (me and Soman) very selective to accept any contract of life show and have to match with our tight study, and Sharkmove only 1 year since Soman die in a traffic accident in Jakarta. I decided to close the chapter of Sharkmove, and a year later I came back in the music and form GIANT STEP and this is the group I worked a lot in my career of the music, in this era I met BOB DOOK one of the best lyric from UK and he contributed a lot to  Giant Step. Nowadays he still stays in Singapore and we agreed to continue by bringing back GIANT STEP with a new concept and support by my son Rhamaditya Nalendra he is multi instrument player and writes good songs, now being discussing with JASON CONNOY from Strawberry Rain by making a new Giant Step recording and sell world wide.

I'm going to write down songs from the LP and I would like if you could comment each one.

A1         My Life   

I wrote this song when I was surrounded by hopeless people, careless, frustrated        

A2          Butterfly  

Its also I made this. Its an advice for people to beware from the bad conditions as crime, it was everywhere at that moment                      

A3          Harga 

Its made by Yanto you have to ask him.               

B1          Evil War 

Its a protest from me as students to the condition which was no fair play at the moment                       

B2          Bingung 

Its written by Soman, I will try to explain the meaning of the lyric, this is also a protest from Soman to the father and mother which was so much consideration of blessing their daughter who planned to get married with some one proposed.

                      

B3          Insan   

Its my song telling about some one who is really confused  and frustrated with the surrounding situation and does not know what is he going to do ??

           

B4          Madat

Its a song made by Yanto, and its a warning to the drugs user

What happened next? You probably disbanded and joined Giant Step, which released first LP in 1976, but they were already together and you just join them. Tell us how did that happen?

Well, again I have told you that since Soman died in accident I feel lonely and fed up with music cos I had a very closed relationship with my best friend Soman (may he RIP), but after long sad situation me and Sammy decided to form another band form  GIANT STEP and invite Deddy Stanza (bassist he is very good in stage act), and I ask Jockie (keyboardist) he is also very good to form Giant Step and this in the longest time I ever worked in the music, as well as the long lists of band players joined in this group, some have already passed away such as Yanto Sudjono (drums), Sammy Zakaria (drums) Deddy Stanza (bassist).

Music of "Giant Step" is different than music of your previous band. How did you manage to get connected with it or was this just a smooth process of you expanding and experimenting in various of ways?

Giant Step was the beginning for me to make music based on harmony and good team work so the members such as Albert, Triawan Erwin did contribute a lot to reach  character of Giant Step Sound, in Giant Step Mark 1 joined us also a guitarist and keyboardist named Deddy Dorres, he did very well and sang the song written by Bob Dook and melody by my self called Childhood and the sea bird.

Your first LP was "Giant on the Move!". I would like to stop here a little bit to talk about this LP. What do you remember from recording and producing it? Was there any concept to it?

Giant on the Move was made after Giant Step mark 1 and we broke up, Deddy left the group and again I met the next generation of keyboardist which is really genius named Triawan he made the song Giant on the move with Bob Dook lyric writer. And the basic concept was that we together agreed to keep Giant Step moving ahead, so called Giant on the move with Benny Soebardja and Albert Warnerin (double lead guitarist) Triawan Munaf (keyboard), Haddy Arief (drums) and Adhi Sibolangit (bassist), Triawan< Haddy and Adi we worked together in producing my solo album as well as Albert.

I'm not sure, but you released around 5 albums in the 70's and then there was your solo carrier, which we will talk about a bit later. Tell us about these releases. Mark I followed and Kukuh Nan Teguh, which is also outstanding.

Giant Step 1 released by family of Deddy Dorres who was dealing business in record shop in Bandung and Kukun Nan Teguh also did by Nova Recording in Bandung, from here we joined with major label with which I wasn't really satisfied with the result of music, and study almost finished and I graduated in 1979 as Agronomist, so my music vision was a little bit contaminated and couldn't focused, and my British Company ICI Pesticides where I worked put me in East Jawa Region my position in that company is Research and Development staff. Some times my friends had to fly to Malang East Java for a music practice if we had a concert to prepare.

How did you release LP's. It was again a DIY project? How many copies were released?

We did our selves only Sharkmove project the rest projects we do not in touch

Giant Step and concerts?

We did a lot of concerts mostly in big Cities in Indonesia we had visited, again we were  very selective to accept the contract due to my tight schedule as a student.

Let's go to your solo career.  In 1975, that is before you Giant Step you recorded Benny Soebardja & Lizard album, which didn't even have an "original" release. It was recorded on the cassettes. How many copies were made and what can you tell us about it? We can hear, you had all freedom in the world to do whatever you like…

Yes......as I told you  my original project is only Sharkmove the rest projects we do not know and I dont want to know in commercial aspect since my recording payment paid once and no Royalties.

"Gimmie a Piece of Gut Rock", was released two years later. How did you record it? Rumor has it, that you had unlimited time in some studio? Your band mates from Giant Step also came and add something to it, right? 

Yes it was a crazy idea in that moment where a dominant music business in Indonesia was mellow music. I met Chinese guy who was interested to produce a different music and gave me a freedom and unlimited time in his studio so this is like a blessing from God.

A year later your released probably the rarest album, which was also only cassette made called "Night Train". 

Night train made by my brother Harry Soebardja is the beginning of working together with my brother band called Lizard in producing my solo album, this happened after Giant Step broke up and Deddy left the group, and from that moment again I had a plan to re form Giant Step with young and fresh musician and have the same idealism..

What happened after that in the 80s and so on with your music career?  What are other members of Shark Move and Giant Step doing these days?

Since I graduated in 1979 and joined ICI Pesticide company and afterwards I worked with Monsanto American company, my music activities slowed down, and in 1986 i've been offered by a famous radio broadcasting called Prambors to sing 2 songs from their 10 best songs called APATIS (wrote by Inggrid) and SESAAT (wrote by Harry Sabar) was a big success, and again major label signed a contract with me to make a solo album called SETITIK HARAPAN and LESTARI (this album its difficult to get) and at the end Giant Step signed contract of 2 albums and made album called GEREGETAN but after that i had decided not to make the 2nd album since i was very busy with my job as Agronomist.

In 2002 Shadoks reissued your Shark Move LP and these days we have solo albums out on Strawberry Rain label. How does it feel knowing people are still listening to your music, even more than ever?

Thanks to Allah, what we did for about more than 30 years ago can still exist in nowaday generation, and thanks to Shadoks, Strawberry Rain (Jason my best friend), Now Again Record (Eothen my best friend too) and Bob Dook who kept supporting and you also Klemen thanks, hope more people in the world will listen to what we did in late 70s, thanks guys.

Was there original master used for the Strawberry Rain releases? Is there any unreleased stuff?

Yes.. I did a project with help from Bob Dook and my son Rhama to produce a new recording of Giant Step we can call a new Giant Step which is a collaboration between 70s and now generation, we  are ready for making 2 albums but still waiting for the confirmation from Jason Connoy of Strawberry Rain, now I am in Singapore discussing with Bob Dook for this project

Benny, I think we covered your music carrier very nicely. Tell us what occupies your life these days?

Today I enjoyed my life after heart attached 2nd of November 2012 hope I can survive, just for your information Bob Dook had a same problem on 2nd November 20 years ago. I live in Jakarta with my wife Tria and i have 2 sons my first son Anggara Rhabenta he is  graduated architecture from TU Delft Holland and now works in Singapore, my 2nd son is Rhama Nalendra graduted as Graphic Designer and follows 100% in music he wrote a lot of good song, he loves very much 70s music and at his age of 26 years has still a long way to go and has been offered  by Berkley Music school in States to study there, but he prefers to make the project of new Giant Step first with Strawberry Rain Canada. And I also have 2 adopted sons.

For the end, would you like to send a message to It's Psychedelic Baby readers?

Yes keep on moving, Rock will never die, keep listening to our songs and May Allah Bless you All, Peace on Earth....!!

Interview made by Klemen Breznikar/2013

© Copyright http://psychedelicbaby.blogspot.com/2013